Death at Koten

[hexjumper]

I'm going to say this: Putting cards that can greatly affect somebody's deck in an expansion that costs _eighty bucks_ is just bloody ridiculous, graphic novel included or not.

They should have been mixed in with the Path of the Destroyer or Harbinger sets. L5R's got enough trouble staying popular without that kind of shenanigan.

-Darren MacLennan

[Katzu]

With a game celebrating 15 years doing exactly these kinds of things, it doesn't have to "stay popular." Its slower than Magic, with just as many rules (if not more,) is harder to correctly build a deck, deals with one specific genre and has a very difficult to grasp style until you are used to it. They make no apologies about it and yet have a large base of dedicated fans due to how dramaticly the fans can impact the story (as opposed to Magic where they have little to no say.) One might say it retains a special following who believe unreasonably.

As a Browncoat, I understand this mentality immensely.

Now to the meat and potatoes. I play Dragon, Lion, Crane, and Phoenix and don't need anything from Koten to have mean decks. Muzzy has a brutal Crab deck and doesn't need anything from Koten. Both Will and Paul run Mantis and don't need anything from Koten. Greg doesn't need Koten to brutalize us with Spider, and even Bryce's Scorpion Kensai/Ninja Military has a good win/loss ratio.

You are trying to play Dishonor in a set that everyone has said AEG nerfed Dishonor in. Moreover, Dishonor is the second hardest win condition in the game, and there are very few Dishonor cards out there at the moment. Its like trying to win football with a passing game when you have been limited on the passing strategies. Build a non-dishonor until they level the Dishonor field would be my recommendation.

[hexjumper]

Jan 11, 2010 19:19:06 GMT -6 Katzu said:

With a game celebrating 15 years doing exactly these kinds of things, it doesn't have to "stay popular."

It should try a lot harder, or it's going to find itself in the same position as wargames from the 1970's - a diehard clique of fans, but no ability to expand itself.

As a Browncoat, I understand this mentality immensely.

I appreciate that L5R has a loyal fan base; I also know that said fan base has shrunk immensely since its heyday. You can market to the fanatics, but the fanatics only have so much money.

You are trying to play Dishonor in a set that everyone has said AEG nerfed Dishonor in. Moreover, Dishonor is the second hardest win condition in the game, and there are very few Dishonor cards out there at the moment. Its like trying to win football with a passing game when you have been limited on the passing strategies. Build a non-dishonor until they level the Dishonor field would be my recommendation.

You're mistaking my complaint. I'm not running a Dishonor deck at the moment, but there are certain cards that are very useful to Scorpions that are only available by way of Death At Koten.

Their decision to make said cards only available in a specific format means that only somebody willing to spend $80 will be able to get hold of them.

Put it this way: I've probably spent $120 on boosters, but even I have to balk when it comes to Death At Koten.

-Darren MacLennan

[hexjumper]

Let me follow up on this, a little:

I'm not complaining because I'm losing games; on the contrary, I beat both Greg and Dave's decks on the weekend, because I've managed to get a rough strategy going. (You were right, Dishonor is the wrong way to go; but under certain conditions, it can hurt a lot.) It also didn't hurt that they got pretty badly goldscrewed from the get-go, but I could see what my deck was doing and how it was doing it.

But with seven clans to service, it's hard to find the specific cards that support the clan-appropriate strategy that you've picked. (Scorpions are Magistrates and Ninja, with Kensai and Courtiers as backup.) Which is why it's frustrating to see decks built around cards that you can't get.

Although this problem may go away with Harbinger, as that'll broaden out our pool of cards nicely.

-Darren MacLennan

[Katzu]

I understand the sentiment, and I had mentioned to several people I was looking to maybe pool some interest in buying Koten among 3-4 like-minded individuals, but then I looked and all I really want from Koten is Togashi Sho*, which is actually easy enough to get via singles through Roku-mart.

But then I'd just have to get rid of some of my Ise-zumi, which I'm happy with 99% of my monks as they are (I MIGHT replace Taro, but as Dragon gets a new Starter in Harbinger I'm gonna have to wait and see what new devilry my come of that.)



* - Understand that Sho is a BRUTAL addition to my deck. 3F with +4F if there's a tattoo in my discard as a passive ability, and I don't have to discard or remove anything? And he's not Unique, so I can have three of him? Brutal, especially if I have any combination of my 3 Shintaro's, 3 Shiori's, Satsu, and Kazuki out.

[draconova]

This sort of thing is actually business-as-usual for L5R, anyway. Before Death at Koten, there were at least four special "direct-to-player" sets -- Thousand Years of Darkness, Dawn of the Empire, Test of Enlightenment, and Emerald and Jade Championships. The only thing different about DaK is the GN that comes with it. There's usually about one per main set released (in order, the above accompanied Gold, Diamond, Lotus, and Samurai editions). Perfect for the truly obsessed player -- pony up (pun not intended, Unicorn players) $80 - 100, and get your hands on the entire, fairly decent set. Not so good for the casual or single-clan player. I can understand how this might also be confusing or annoying for new players, whose only experience with special sets has been the free Imperial Gifts.

I'll reinforce what Katsu's said, though -- with Roku-Mart and Legendary L5R Search out there, it's not impossible to get your hands on the cards you need without having to buy the whole set. They're well worth it -- I've used them both and others to great advantage over the years.

[Apex Cypher]

Just so you know, the Harbinger set is now available without the graphic novel for $60. That is a 220 card set for $60. Just for comparison 15 booster packs is roughly the same amount of cards and that would cost you about $56 plus tax.

[hexjumper]

Good to know! - although I'm guessing that you mean Death at Koten and were thinking of the upcoming Harbinger release. $60 is a lot better...

-Darren MacLennan

[Apex Cypher]

yeah death at koten is what i meant sorry.